hcihostid

[Mark Brown]

What does the command hcihostid use to create the license key?  I’m not asking how it does it.  I’m just curious if it uses features from the server that might change, like name or IP address.

Topic

[Russ Ross]

I sort of think of it as the serial number of the entire physical box.

Definetiely doesn’t have anything to do with the hostname or IP.

That means the same license will work for any and all LPARs on the same physical AIX box becuase we have that situation.

I would suspect that is the same for virtual machines on other platforms.

In other words my experience leads me to believ license keys are tied to the physical box no matter how you slice it up.

You need another license key when your LPAR or virtual machine is moved and runs on a different physical box.

fortunately, you can put multiple linces keys for different physical servers in the license key file so it can be moved around as desired but you will need to identify all the physical boxes that cloverleaf might possibley run on and run hcihostid on each of them to get a set of license key entries for each and every one.

In our case we have 2 physical boxes used for HACMP fail-over and thus need 2 license keys but we have 3 LPARs (logical partitions) on each of those physical boxes, so all 6 LPARs are accomodated with 2 set of license key entries.

When we go to a 3’rd physical box to include streatch fail-over to our disaster recover node then I will need to ad a 3’rd set of license key entries to keep from having to worry where a givne LPAR is running.

Russ Ross
RussRoss318@gmail.com

[Chris Williams]

License keys are based on the primary NIC’s MAC address. Be aware of that if you have to replace hardware.

[Robbie Parker]

Yes, I learned that the hard way when serverAdmins moved one of the HA cluster blades to a new blade chassis.   Failover failed, b/c license invalid on that new host with new blade chassis-NIC block, or whatever it is called.

🙂

[Russ Ross]

I did some checking to see if the hcihostid on our AIX server ties to any of the physical NIC MAC addresses and it doesn’t seem to.

However, doing the command

uname -a

which shows the serial number of the physical box, does appear to match the output from hcihostid.

Since on our AIX box the output from hcihostid matches the serial number from running ( uname -a ), I’m still inclinded to think of the license being tied to the serial number on our AIX platform.

This discussion is timely and something relevant for me since we are moving our boxes very soon (4/17/2011).

I’m curious to hear from those that believe the hcihostid is tied to the primary NIC’s MAC address, and have them see if the output from hcihostid matches their serial number by running (uname -a) and comparing them.

I only know the commands for AIX but here is how you can show the physical NICs on an individual LPAR.

lsdev -Cc adapter

which shows this on one of our LPARs

ent0 [code]ent0

Russ Ross
RussRoss318@gmail.com

[Bob Richardson]

Greetings,

Discovered this tidbit at the recent CUE11 Conference for CIS5.7 and up:

the hcihostid takes the MAC address of the box and scrambles it

creating a longer value now.   All part of a process to secure the licenses

for Cloverleaf and make sure they don’t port to another box.

Did I get it right Lawson?

Enjoy.

[Russ Ross]

This brings to light we are running Cloverleaf 5.6 rev 2 on AIX 5.3.

The newer versions might have a different behavior which I can’t speak to.

I wish I could contact support but we are in support limbo and have none since the phone support was removed, which I don’t consider support when you can’t pick up the phone and get a live person by simply dialing a direct phone number.

If the MAC address is used in more current version then this has some interesting points potentially.

First question is does this represent a single point of failure which is not desireable for an HACMP shop.

On the other hand my admins tell me it used to be that a MAC address can be configure to transparently fail-over simialr to how we transparently fail-over our services address.

This would then allow me to potentially at least fail-over to any physical box if I figure out how to pull this off, using just one license key which would be nice.

On the other hand my system admins tell me this might not be doable in the future when we move to the P7 hardware with virtual mobility.

Russ Ross
RussRoss318@gmail.com

[Chris Williams]

I should have qualified my response by saying I can only speak for HP-UX and Linux with versions 5.2.1 and 5.6. Perhaps AIX (IBM) has an embedded hardware serial number. Other systems do not. We have a high-availability installation, and the fail-over box requires a separate license key, hence the need to store keys for multiple licenses in the same file. The fail-over box has what is referred to as a Stand-By License.

[Steve Carter]

I’m inclined to agree with Bob’s explanation of the hcihostid determination.

In earlier versions of Cloverleaf (<5.3 on AIX for me), the hostID was related to the MAC address of the NIC.  I've noticed the hostID changing quite a bit over the past few upgrades.

To comment on Russ’ response – Our hostID was the same across LPAR’s on the same frame for 5.5, but in 5.7 it is now unique per LPAR.

My $.01 worth.

Steve

[Russ Ross]

Is anyone out there running Cloverleaf under AIX on a P7 platform and moving it around to virtual LPARs using virtual mobility?

If so how do you handle the licensing when the system admins can simply move a live Cloverleaf server to another virtual LPAR on another physical box transparently without having to shut down any running process like Cloverleaf.

This is what is appealing to our admins so they can do maintenance on any of their physical P7s without having to shut a running application down.

However, this raises concerns about the license being a problem.

I would like to call tech support and discuss but we are in support limbo since Lawson took away the old phone support.

Our manager I think has taken steps to get us setup on the new support and get some training for us on it.

Russ Ross
RussRoss318@gmail.com

[Steve Carter]

Russ,

I posed this question to Quovadx (long before they were Lawson) and never received an answer.  We’ve been running on the P7 hardware with LPM for quite some time.  Fortunately, our admins are kind enough not to move things around without telling us.

Based on how the hostID is determined, I’m not sure that Lawson can currently accomodate the use of LPM.  My hope is that as LPM becomes more ‘popular’ that the licensing will be able to support it.

I can tell you that a running Cloverleaf environment can be picked up and dropped on another server and continue to run without issue.  HOWEVER, if for any reason a process is stopped or crashes, it cannot be restarted.  We’ve done this with our development environment for a short period of time, but I would never recommend trying this in production.

I’ll try to tag our rep again and see if I can get an answer.  I’ll post any information that I receive.

Thanks.

Steve

[Russ Ross]

Thanks for your willingness to pass along anything you might discover.

Our future direction is to take all AIX boxes and move them to LPARs on one large P7, one of whci will be cloverleaf.

This will represent a considerable consilidatation of anyware from 25 – 50 machines into one P7.

There will be 2 physical P7’s in the computer room for inhouse fail-over and virtual mobility to accomodate the normal needs.

There will be an additional P7 at the disaster recovery site with stretch fail-over for a 3 node HACMP cluster for cloverleaf.

If the license still used the serial number of the physical box then 3 licenses would do it for me like it does for my 2 node HACMP cluster.

If the license has changed to something else like the MAC address of a NIC I will need to understand that situration and setup a test.

Personally a MAC address of a NIC that could fail sounds like an undesirable single point of failure not to mention an unspsecting replacement of that NIC could blind side cloverleaf.

We use either channel which combines multiple NICs and that might have its won MAC address, not sure, which could recued the single point of failur potential.

I eventually expect I will have to get trained on how to traverse the current support maze to be able to brainstorm with HealthVison support people.

When you mention your virtual mobility works, are you moving to a different physical P7 box and if so both the serial number and probably the MAC address of the NIC change and what did you have to do to get the cloverleaf license file to work.

In our P7 world I’m told everything has to be virtualized for it all to work so there are no disk files on the local hard dirve; everything even the home directories will be on the SAN.

Russ Ross
RussRoss318@gmail.com

[Rob Abbott]

Quote:

I would like to call tech support and discuss but we are in support limbo since Lawson took away the old phone support.

Our manager I think has taken steps to get us setup on the new support and get some training for us on it.

Russ, phone support is still available.

Rob Abbott
Cloverleaf Emeritus

[Steve Carter]

Thanks Rob.  I have been in touch with my rep.  I’m now waiting to hear back.

Steve

[Russ Ross]

Thanks Rob for that Lawson support number!

I gave the tech support number a try and was able to get a proxy case # for this issues since MD Anderson already has a client ID number but none of us have a Lawson support user ID so far I was told.

Here are the steps that worked for me:

1-800-695-9000

provide client ID # for MD Anderson Cancer Center

press 2 for new ticket

not critical so wait for other options

press 2 for cloverleaf and other applications

press 1 for cloverleaf suite

support person comes online and created a proxy CASE # for me

Since I have no Lawson support user ID the support person created a proxy case #.

I was informed that the license isn’t tied to the serial number in more curent versions of cloverleaf.

My case # is now in the que to be directed to a person that can better attempt to provide the clarity I will need to understand what my licensing issues are now that we are headed to a more cloud computing like environment with the P7 virtual mobility.

If I get any useful feedback I will try to remeber to post about it.

We are moving our cloverleaf boxes to new physical locations this Sunday at 2 AM so feels a little better to have an avenue to contact support now.

I was told the support after hours is still like before that an oncall pager is notified and you wait for a response back.

Russ Ross
RussRoss318@gmail.com

[Russ Ross]

Cloverleaf tech support got me in the que and to make a long story short Gothum was in Houston this weekend and I had lunch with him Satruday 4/16/2011.

Gothum did increase my comfort zone by letting me know that if I buy a license for every physical P7 and I vmotion a LPAR running cloverleaf it will work.

I wasn’t surprsed that Lawson might want to keep their license details a bit under wraps, so I listened enough to get more comfortable without pushing Gothum for a full detailed understanding.

As it stands with newer versions of cloverleaf, the license is tied to the physical box by either serial number or MAC address depending on the version of cloverleaf and/or OS platform, but the output of hostid will not necessarily clue you in on which one it is anymore.

That is consistent with what has already been posted here and doesn’t significantly add clarity in any greater detail but I said I would pass along my outcome.

Knowing this means I still need a cloverleaf license for each physical box just like I currently do to get cloverleaf to run on our P5 LPARs.

I potentially could need more cloverleaf licenses to be leagal but now I feel better about what I need to make Cloverleaf work and not worry about it failing when we vmotion a LPAR with Cloverleaf running on it to another physical box.

Russ Ross
RussRoss318@gmail.com

[Russ Ross]

Steve Carter wrote:

I can tell you that a running Cloverleaf environment can be picked up and dropped on another server and continue to run without issue. [code]Steve Carter wrote:

I can tell you that a running Cloverleaf environment can be picked up and dropped on another server and continue to run without issue.

Russ Ross
RussRoss318@gmail.com

[Steve Carter]

Russ,

The only keys in our license file are for the specific server on which it’s running.  That’s why processes will continue to run until they are cycled if moved to another server.  Our AIX admins do not currently utilize LPM on our Cloverleaf servers due to the licensing issue.

Obtaining licenses for all of the potential servers on which Cloverleaf could land is not a good solution for us.  We have so many servers and they’re changing all of the time.  It would be a near full-time job just to keep requesting new licenses.

Steve

[Russ Ross]

Steve:

I just want to be clear and certain of your situation before I concluded 2 or 3 licenses might not handle all your logical servers.

When you say server do you mean physical box with different serial numbers (uname -a) or do you mean the hostname and IP of the server?

I’ve been told the idea at least here is to start with 2 physical P7 boxes that will house all our P5 AIX servers.

That means we will have anywhere from 25 to 50 unique servers/hostnames/LPARs/IPs on one physical P7 box and 25 or 50 on another physical box but only need 2 cloverleaf licenses to run cloverleaf on any of the servers/hostnames/LPARs/IPs, so I’ve been led to believe so far.

That certainly has been true on the P5 hardware where we have 6 servers/hostnames/LPARs/IPs that cloverleaf will run on any of them using the license.dat file I posted previously.

We only have 2 active at any one time, one for TEST and one for PROD, and we’ve only moved them around via HACMP thus far.

Also, I’m just speaking to the functionality and not the leagal requriement because I’m concerned with what will be necessary to make it work first and formost as it might be moved around.

Are you saying you have many physical P7’s, like more than 3 because I was led to believe these babies have a large capability?

If you do have more than 3 physical P7s, how many servers/hostnames/LPARs/IPs whatever your preference are your admins putting on each physical P7.

I’m hoping when you talk to your admins about this your burden will disappear if they tell you most if not all the servers physically run on 2 or 3 boxes at most, like us.

You could run the command (uname -a) on several different servers to see if the serial number is different or keeps coming up mostly the same.

If your serial numbers seem different for each server then I would be inclined to agree that you would be challenged to find an alternative solution.

Russ Ross
RussRoss318@gmail.com

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